[Micah]: You’re listening to K-A-L-X Berkeley 90.7 FM.
[Sydney]: We have a question for you… imagine it’s 9pm on a Saturday evening. You’ve just gotten off work, or finished your last class. Where are you heading right now? [Miriam]: Are you at a restaurant with family?
[Angelina]: Going out with friends to a concert?
[Colin]: Headed to a movie theater?
[Francis]: Working out with your gym buddies?
[Micah]: Full disclosure, I know what I’m probably up to… doomscrolling alone at home. [Sydney]: If this sounds relatable, it’s not just you! We’ve also been feeling a bit lonely lately. In fact, an estimated 44 million Americans in 2023 reported feeling crushing loneliness, leading US Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy [[vih-VAYK MOOR-thee]] to confirm what we’ve already been feeling: We’re in a loneliness epidemic.
[Miriam]: Here at KALX, we wanted to understand why modern life feels increasingly isolating. Where did all the casual places we used to just show up and meet people go? [Angelina]: To answer this question, our team:
[Micah]: That’s me, Micah
[Francis]: And me, Francis
[Angelina]: I’m Angelina
[Sydney]: Sydney
[Miriam]: Miriam
[Colin]: And Colin.
[Francis]: Together, we looked into third spaces: Places outside of school, work, and home that we go to for human connection.
[Micah]: I’m your host for this episode, Micah. From the KALX Discovery Internship team, you’re listening to Spaced Out, a show about the places that hold communities together. This is episode one, “The Great Good Place”.
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[Micah]: When we first got together as a team, we discussed a multitude of ideas for what we could talk about in the show. How did we settle on third spaces as our chosen topic? [Miriam]: Well I was initially interested because we go to a huge school, over 46 thousand people. And I feel it can be hard, especially as a freshman, to connect with people if you aren’t consistently seeing them around campus, or in class ,or at clubs. It can also be hard to break the ice and go up to random people who you see around but have never spoken too. I heard about this topic before my friends and family have talked about third spaces with me so I was sort of wondering what those spaces looked like at Berkeley.
[Micah]: When you came up with the idea, were you at a certain third space, did you have a specific third space in mind that you were hoping to explore deeper?
[Miriam]: Not necessarily. I had just joined a club this semester that I was excited to be a part of so I was definitely thinking about that in terms of this being my new community now. [Micah]: And what club was that, if you don’t mind me asking?
[Miriam]: Yeah! The Berkeley Political Review.
[Micah]: Would you say that third spaces have been important for your academic, or social, or professional development, and if so how?
[Miriam]: I’m thinking right now about the neighborhood I grew up in, and my family home. We live on a street where there are no sidewalks. It’s really hard to go out and walk because it’s a busy street and our neighbors aren’t that close. We recognize people for sure, but we don’t have a place where we regularly convene with them or there aren’t any neighborhood block parties or anything like that. That’s something I’ve always felt was missing from growing up there and I would go over to a friend’s house and see how things were different on the streets or neighborhoods they lived in. Some would have neighbors coming over all the time or others would be out in the streets saying hi and that’s always been in the back of my head when I think about third spaces. Because I think third spaces are, or should be, places that you go to connect with familiar faces. Wait, but Micah, tell me about the neighborhood you grew up in? [Micah]: Absolutely, well the neighborhood I grew up in as a third space is interesting me, I went to school two blocks away from my house and the school I went to, which was a Jewish day school, was also the synagogue and Jewish community center, so it was this kind of, in so many ways, there were so many third spaces as a part of that. After school clubs and sports, it was all kind of concentrated around the building or set of buildings that happened to be in my neighborhood.
[Miriam]: Yeah thanks for sharing that. I always wished I could have that environment. I went to the local elementary school but it was a little ways away and I actually transferred districts for high school and so we had to drive to another city over. So I definitely felt a disconnect from that community because unlike some of the other students, I wasn’t two blocks away. [Micah]: Absolutely. Before we really start talking about third spaces in Berkeley, let’s define exactly what we’re talking about for listeners who might not have heard the topic. Colin?
[Colin]: The term “Third Place” comes from sociologist Ray Oldenburg’s [[ol-DIN-burg]] book “The Great Good Place”.
His argument is that healthy communities rely on three types of places: home, work, and a third space where people gather informally. That third space is where everyday social life happens. Historically, that’s been cafes, pubs, barbershops, diners, places where people show up regularly just to talk. Conversation is the main activity. People go there because it’s comfortable, it’s nearby and you’re likely to run into familiar faces.
Oldenburg’s point is that those places are actually doing a lot of social work. They help neighbors meet each other, they integrate newcomers, they create informal support networks, and they provide spaces where people can debate ideas and talk about what’s happening in their communities.
But he also argues that modern American development, especially suburbanization, zoning laws and car culture, has slowly erased a lot of those spaces. We built neighborhoods where people mostly moved between two places: home and work. The third place disappeared.
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[Micah]: You’re listening to “Spaced Out” on K-A-L-X Berkeley, 90.7 FM, a show about third spaces.
[Micah]: Miriam got the chance to talk to Dr. Edwin Lin, a sociology lecturer at UC Berkeley who’s been watching campus life change for over two decades
[Miriam]: I asked him a pretty simple question: Are we still actually present in the spaces we share?
[Dr. Lin]: Before on Sproul, you had lots of people tabling, of course, but I think that this tabling was a little bit more active and social
[Miriam]: Dr. Lin’s been at Berkeley since he was an undergrad himself, class of 2006. [Dr. Lin]: You would see people just hanging out in smaller groups, having serendipitous meetings. So it’s not like they scheduled it, but like you’ll see someone on the bench, and then you’ll see someone come up to them and say, ‘Oh, hi,’ and they’ll stay there for 10, 15 minutes, having conversations, things like that.
[Miriam]: He watched smartphones arrive on campus. And he says he’s noticed a shift not just in how people communicate, but also in how they occupy space.
[Dr. Lin]: Research definitely shows that headphones make it almost impossible for you to interact with a stranger. Those odds go dramatically down compared to traditional media. So if you have a book, a newspaper, a phone, a laptop– but having something in your ears basically eliminates almost all possibility of you really interacting with people.
[Miriam]: He told me about a recent moment that stuck with him. Sproul Plaza, two people, same bench.
[Dr. Lin]: I saw two people sitting on a bench right next to each other, but one person was talking on the phone and the other person was lying down, actually, to take a nap or something. But obviously the two of them feel very comfortable being next to each other physically, but not interacting at all. And I think that that’s much more normal now, where it’s more isolated, people are by themselves, they’re on their device.
[Miriam]: Dr. Lin says that what we lose when that happens isn’t just chitchat… [Dr. Lin]: No one really wants to, like, when you’re sitting there eating your lunch, have someone come up to them and talk to them. But that’s kind of the reality, in my opinion, of human interaction. It’s messy. You don’t always get what you want, you have to compromise sometimes in order to get along with people, even strangers. Part of a community is that you don’t always feel comfortable, but you still engage, you still listen, you can politely decline or whatever, that’s still a meaningful part of human relationship.
[Miriam]: What worries Dr. Lin is a future where we engineer all of that messiness out. Where technology gets good enough at giving us the feeling of connection, without any of the discomfort that makes it real.
[Dr. Lin]: If I don’t have friends, like, a chatbot can be my friend, or AI can be my friend, and I can process things with them… that’s a bit of a scary future, simply because people won’t really learn what it means to be in a messy or difficult relationship with people. What scares me is that more and more people don’t have to have that. And online, it’s so easy to just, I’m not going to talk to these people, I don’t want to engage with them, so I’m just not going to. [Miriam]: He’s not totally pessimistic though. He sees a version of the future where online connection becomes a bridge, before meeting up in-person.
[Dr. Lin]: The hopeful one is that there is a world where the online space helps people to get over their initial fears… helps us to get introduced to people, to overcome certain biases or stereotypes. And then from there, we actually engage.
[Miriam]: The bench is still there. Now the question is whether we take the time to sit down, and whether, when someone takes the spot next to us, we take out an earbud. [music jingle] You’re listening to “Spaced Out” on K-A-L-X Berkeley, 90.7fm.
[Micah]: So we’ve heard from experts on third places — what do ordinary people think? Francis has more:
[Francis]: I talked to four UC Berkeley students around campus about their experiences with third places.
[Khadija]: My name’s Khadija, I’m here at Cal studying linguistics.
[Mariano]: My name is Mariano, I am a fourth-year, and I’m a psychology major. [Caiden]: I’m Caiden, and I’m just here to see if I can find a career for myself eventually. [Lily]: I’m Lily Myers, I’m a freshman studying astrophysics.
[Francis]: First question: do you know what a third space is?
[Khadija]: I don’t think I know anything about third places.
[Mariano]: I’m not sure what this is.
[Caiden]: A place you wouldn’t normally think of, I think.
[Lily]: I think the definition is something like, you know, a place that’s not school, work or where you live.
[Francis]: Lily’s on the right track! For everyone else, I gave them a basic definition of a third place, according to the Oxford English Dictionary: “An area such as a cafe, library, sports facility, etc., that is neither home nor workplace, and provides a communal or public space for relaxation, recreation, or relief from stress.” Once they had that definition, they got a bit more excited.
[Caiden]: I think a third place sounds kind of cozy.
[Francis]: Here’s me talking to Mariano:
[Francis (in interview)]: So now that you have the definition, what do you think? Do you encounter third spaces regularly in your life, or?
[Mariano]: Now that I know what it is, it sounds fire, it sounds really healthy not only for relationships but for the individual as well, to decompress from all the stresses of the day. [Francis]: What third spaces do you think you visit over the course of a week, for example? [Mariano]: Over the course of a week—I guess, theoretically, you could create these spaces too, whether it’s bringing people together or going somewhere on campus such as MLK. I would say at least five days a week I visit a space like this or attempt to create it. [Francis]: What kind of space have you created or visited in the past?
[Mariano]: As far as visiting I feel like a default might be MLK B-North at times. Whether the purpose is to get work done or not, we usually end up using that space in a very multifaceted way that helps us, not only to decompress, but with whatever we’re working on too.
[Francis (in studio)]: Lily, who already knew about third places going into the interview, also had several examples to list.
[Lily]: And so the first thing I think of is probably going to be something like a library, a café, a park, something like that. Typically I’d say I hope for it to be somewhere free, where you don’t have to spend money, like the library and park examples. I think it’s kind of tough because all
the libraries here are kinda on campus, I don’t really know if they count as being at school or not. But I’d say definitely that sort of thing. Probably like the park, I can’t really say I go to the park, but I’d like to. I definitely frequent a lot of third places that are paid, I like to go to cafés a lot but obviously you have to buy something or purchase something to be there. There’s definitely like museums I can think of, but a lot of places you also have to pay. [Francis]: Are there any specific places you would like to highlight, any specific libraries, any specific cafés?
[Lily]: This is going to sound bad but I really love Starbucks, because I’m from Seattle and it’s like a taste of home. But of course I like local cafés as well. I kinda just walk down Telegraph and see if there’s any place I haven’t been, and try something new. For libraries, I really like all the libraries, I’ve made it my mission to go to all the libraries on campus. I think it’s the Transportation library and Social Sciences Library I haven’t gone to yet.
[Francis]: Lily and Mariano seem to find a lot of community in third places. But for others, even when they go to conventional third places, they don’t necessarily fulfill the social functions usually associated with third spaces.
[Khadija]: I do frequent places like that, but I generally go by myself. I don’t especially go places to find community that often, but I can resonate with the definition of it. [Caiden]: Sometimes I go to the Bear Café or the one down the street.
[Francis]: When you go to a third place, what do you find yourself doing? [Caiden]: Just sitting down, drinking or eating what I order, and scrolling on my phone. [Francis]: So it seems that even when people are going to traditional third places like cafés or libraries, they often aren’t socializing, even though that’s what third places are supposed to be about. Even places that have historically brought people together may now be places of relative isolation. But, for at least some people, third places remain important parts of everyday social life.
[music jingle] You’re listening to “Spaced Out” on K-A-L-X Berkeley, 90.7fm.
[Micah]: Another reason why we were interested in third spaces was because we meet as a part of one: KALX. Sydney talked to some volunteers at KALX Live, a weekly night at the station where artists come and perform live in the studio.
[Sydney]: To start, I want to understand your background with KALX and where you are in your time here, so when did you start volunteering at KALX?
[Jazelyn]: I’m Jazelyn Munoz. I’ve been volunteering since February 2024, so it’s been two years, I think.
[James]: James Bogursky. Uh, I’ve actually started very recently, just in this new round of recruitment for spring 2026. So I think I officially started last month.
[Sydney]: What department did you start in at KALX?
[Jazelyn]: I started in the library department and special events, and that’s pretty much what I’ve been doing.
[James]: So I spend most of my time actually in special events, which was not what I was expecting, um, but I’m also getting trained for library, and I’ve already written a PSA for public affairs.
[Sydney]: Have you done anything in these spaces, in these communities before, or is KALX kind of your introduction to it?
[James]: Yeah, so um, I like to consider myself a music fan, and especially kind of indie stuff, but I’ve never gotten to be involved in a space like this before. I mean, I have like bare-bones podcast experience from summer camp, and, you know, bare-bones lighting from drama in high school, that kind of stuff, but um, I’m really excited to actually get into it, learn it some more. I’m really hoping to become a sound engineer, that kind of thing, so this is my first time with that more concentrated experience.
[Sydney]: Is there a reason that you chose those departments and chose to stay within those departments?
[Jazelyn]: Um, mostly they kind of fill up my hours. I have considered kind of jumping around to different departments, just haven’t gotten around to it.
[James]: Yeah, so um, I’ve, you know, just recently joined, but I’m kind of helping out as a general volunteer, you know, an extra hand. Um, the first one I went to was last week’s. Uh, it was actually really cool. Apparently it was very different from the normal KALX Live because it was a one-person event, it was a harpist, Eleanora. So that was really cool. Um, so we just helped set up and take down the room, and we got to talk to the artist and got to kind of socialize during the performance, watch the sound engineers work. Today, uh, I actually came an hour early because on the first Saturday of the month they have one-hour kind of class on sound engineering and on the digital mixer board, so that’s what I did today. And, you know, I’m here for another KALX Live performance tonight.
[Jazelyn]: Yeah, I’ve done like a lot of, um, like training sessions for engineering, but I’ve just, I never became, I haven’t become a full-fledged engineer.
[Sydney]: I’m curious which one do you find yourself spending more time in? [Jazelyn]: Definitely library, just because of how flexible it is, and I really like exploring different music
[music jingle] You’re listening to “Spaced Out” on K-A-L-X Berkeley, 90.7fm. [Sydney]: You mentioning hours makes me think of, um, there is that barrier of if you have work, if you have multiple jobs, it’s kind of hard to come in and get your hours. So I’m curious if you found that to be a barrier to entering KALX, or if you found any other barriers within KALX that maybe are a bit intimidating, but obviously you’re here, so you powered through them. [James]: Oh yeah, it’s a little intimidating cause you see people who have been here for such a long time already, and it’s like everyone knows them, and it’s like, oh, is there a way I can get to know all these people and have people start to recognize me? So that’s a little intimidating, but it looks like a place that’s very open and welcoming, uh, filled with my kind of people, so it’s somewhere, one of the reasons I wanted to join was to kind of build community, meet new people, make new friends.
[Jazelyn]: Sometimes when I’m at like two hours near the end of the month and need another four, it’s like, oh, I have to go to the station and organize CDs or something, but it’s still kind of like, because I want to continue to work around other people and around music. [James]: You know, you have to join within a very specific recruitment period, and that’s like the only barrier I’ve had. I’ve got like a ridiculous daily schedule where I’m not free on weekdays from like seven a.m. to seven p.m., so I’ve got like a ridiculous schedule during the week, but you know, I’ve heard with library you can kind of come in whenever, come in late, or PSAs you can write whenever. And coming into the physical space, you know, they’ve got stuff going on on the weekends, and so it seems like somewhere where even with kind of a tight schedule, there’s so much flexibility that hours don’t seem like they’re going to be an issue. And then I also know that I was looking into doing like transcribing for public affairs too, and that’s a way you can just get hours outside of the studio as well.
[Jazelyn]: Some people do come with like a, um, like they’re busy, you know, like they have minutes until their show’s on or they have like a task they need to do. It’s kind of hard for me to tell who’s here willing to talk about a CD or something, or who I should give space because they are stressed out about finding music for their next DJ slot.
[James]: Something that kind of shocked me, um, in like the recruitment meeting and everything was everyone was talking about ways to get your hours and everything, and for me I was like, oh, are people competing for hours? Is it really hard to get hours? So I went up and asked about that, and they were like, oh no, no, you can do as many hours as you want. Uh, it’s just like the way they talked about it made it sound like, oh yeah, you know, some people come here as kind of like a chore they have to do to get on the DJ training list, and for me it’s like, you know, I want to get onto the waitlist for that, but it’s not at all why I’m here. You know, I’m here to spend nights in the library and sorting there and coming in on Saturdays and handing out, so that’s why I’m here, and it’s not at all a chore.
[Sydney]: What is your favorite thing that you found in the library?
[Jazelyn]: For sure, I think it’s gonna be Cursive’s Domestica. It’s like, I think it’s a 2000, 2001 release. I think it’s their debut, I’m not sure, but it immediately got me with their first song, which is like, it starts so loud and so sudden, and I just really love um, it’s really angsty, you know. And I think that was really near the beginning of when I first started, and then just last September I finally saw the band play, and I waited like an hour after the show to be able to meet the band and get my own copy of Domestica signed, so I think that that was really cool. [Sydney]: Looking forward and looking just in the present moment where you are now, what intentions are you setting about coming to KALX, um, moving forward with KALX as your third space, your community?
[James]: Yeah, I really am excited to get to know people more. I mean, the people I’ve already met here, such a wide range of people, um, you know, students and community members, and everyone I’ve met so far has been really cool. So I want to keep meeting new people, start like getting to know people, people knowing me, um, so that’s like, that’s my main reason for being here, is to build community, but I’m also really excited to learn new things about sound
engineering and about, you know, working in the library and just putting in time and becoming kind of like a solid part of it.
[Jazelyn]: It’s not that serious, you know. Like, I was afraid I was going to mess up, so I’d kind of stand more toward the back of the room when they were doing sessions on the, what are these, on the board, you know, so I guess just be willing to step closer to the board to see what’s happening.
[Sydney]: Is there something that you’d like to say to new volunteers who are considering joining KALX?
[Jazelyn]: Support local music. Initially I did join just because I was interested in music and not so much as like a social thing, which is a little crazy to say, but I have made a lot of friends here, a lot of who have different music tastes and others who have the same music taste. And both are equally, um, I just have so much fun with people here.
[James]: Yeah, um, so I’m a freshman, um, this is my first year at Cal, um, and I just this semester started doing like extracurriculars and stuff. Just last semester I was like, okay, let me focus on my classes, see how the work load gives out, but just being like a couple months into the semester, I’m enjoying the semester so much more just because I’ve found places to go. Like even doing your homework in third spaces is so much nicer than having to do it in your home or having to do it at school. So, um, I’ve been enjoying that, and then, you know, meeting people, human connection is always a great thing, so I’ve been enjoying that a lot more this semester.
[Sydney]: That was Jazelyn and James sharing their experiences as KALX volunteers. Whether it’s organizing in the library, working live events, or just showing up and getting involved, clearly there’s no single way to be part of this space. If you’re thinking about joining KALX or any third space, take their advice: start where you can, stay curious, and don’t be afraid to step a little closer.
[Micah]: Over the course of the next couple months, we’re going to be taking you to a variety of third spaces around Berkeley– both on and off campus. We’ll interview the people who make those spaces what they are, and get a better idea of why certain spaces are thriving in today’s loneliness era. And we’ll discuss the cultural imagination around third spaces, our favorite songs, movies, paintings, associated them, discovering what has gone into creating our idea of what makes a third space fun. We hope you’ll join us and keep tuning in. In the meantime, keep listening to KALX.
[All]: Talk to you soon!
