Ears of Maize: I’m Ears of Maize with 90.7 FM, KALX Berkeley, sitting down here in conversation with Sergio Rios of the band Orgōne and other projects. Sergio, welcome. I wanna thank you for the time. How did you get so funky?
Sergio Rios: Um, wow, that’s, uh– I mean, that’s a big bite. You know, I think taking the, uh, taking the love and the inspiration from, you know, the forefathers and all the records– kind of the foundation, and really digging in and dedicating to trying to, I don’t know– out of that love and trying to emulate– and just, you know, understand why, why does– these records feel so good or these, you know, certain bands– And just wanting it real bad. [Chuckling.]
Ears of Maize: Listening to your music, like, you seem to wear your influences on your sleeve as far as, you know, songs that you cover, or just as a listener, I can hear the direct influence to a lot of stuff. What might be an influence that, um, is sort of conducive to your sound that, you know, the average bear wouldn’t anticipate?
Sergio Rios: Uh, well for me personally, you know, um. Minor Threat, and, uh, you know, Bad Brains, blah, blah, blah. That ‘80s DC hardcore and I think, you know, eighties Metallica, and before getting into sort of blues music and soul and, and that, you know, African diaspora, I think that, for me personally, shaped a lot of my music views and stuff. But that’s definitely a through line that carries in the attitudes– all of it, you know, that it’s just, I mean, there is– and I feel that connection between Minor Threat and Funkadelic and, you know, The Meters, where it’s just like, just there’s an attitude and just sort of a toughness to all of it, uh, raw and real, you know, between every– all the influences from, you know, the core members of the band that, you know, have kind of spread. I think I’m the only one who really had that kind of background, but for me, that’s what I take pride in as far– especially with our shows and, and with the music, that it’s gotta have some kind of toughness to it and some edge that– funky but it’s, you know, it’s– all the best funk and soul music has a little dark edge to it, you know?
Ears of Maize: Yeah. That it has to have a feeling. You know it when you’re there, right?
Sergio Rios: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s what speaks to me. And there’s a rawness and a realness and you know, there’s truth, you know?
Ears of Maize: Yeah. Um, again, I hear that as a listener. I grew up on a heavy dose of jazz and a lot of sort of analog, very instrument heavy music. A lot of the music that you make is instrument driven or instrumental. What’s your relationship with instrumental music in this world in which, you know, there’s so much emphasis on lyrics or so much to be said, like how do you sort of speak with, with the musician side of things?
Sergio Rios: Um, definitely, when discovering The Meters and Booker T and The MGs and, uh, especially The JBs, all the James Brown bands, but the instrumental– James Brown brand instrumentals, uh, that really spoke to, to me and us and my partner who founded the band, [correcting himself] my partner in founding the band, Dan Hastie, the keyboard player. And I think we both kinda, in our teenage years, discovered those elements and it just spoke to us. I mean, it spoke to me primarily and even in playing guitar and digging and definitely things like Wes Montgomery and Grant Green and you know, like that jazz aspect of lyricism in the instrument itself. I think also, yeah, I don’t know if that we’re somehow developed not being necessarily lyrically oriented. So I don’t know if that answers the question, but–
Ears of Maize: Yeah. Do you see music sort of cinematically, if there’s crossover in the movie world for you? Or like how sort of your vision of things sort of comes together?
Sergio Rios: Yeah, I think it’s always been cinematically in terms of, you know, maybe not an image, but feeling, you know, something that conveys– whether that’s evocative, you know, and even listening to a lot of music when, you know– Turkish, like a lot of Turkish psych or a lot of Congolese and West African music, that’s– languages that I don’t understand, but it speaks to, you know, it’s in a voice as instrument as far as melodic and rhythmic and what that evokes. Um, I don’t know. It paints a picture in your head and it’s what that feels like and what that is. And don’t need to understand words in or to limit it, to have words, to evoke these things and create a mood. And, uh, yeah, definitely a cinematic aspect. Yeah. Creates a movie in your head, um, you know, or, or a snippet of a movie or something, some kind of scenario. I think definitely with our recordings, that is an absolute goal is to be honest– that’s a lot of the way we’ve written our music is– starts from just sort of messing around and, you know, jamming and kind of, without really thinking too much on what we’re supposed to do, and just because of the rapport and the musicians, we lock into something and that’s the spark. It’s always when it has a sort of a definitive feel and it’s immediately like a picture. And then it gives you a direction to go down.
Ears of Maize: Maybe the thing we’re both dancing around here is the idea that it’s just this energy, right?
Sergio Rios: Absolutely. You know, and, and also having, I mean, grown up with so many great movie soundtracks and things like that– I mean, everything is always sort of, you know, you hear– you have this energy in whether creating or listening to it, and it’s like it’s going to create some mood and a feeling and a picture. And music is the soundtracks to our lives, right? You know, whatever period of our lives that we– things we’re listening to, that’s definitely– it so ties into that period of memories and specific places and times and things.
Ears of Maize: Yeah, no, I think you hit it. Like that’s definitive of like the groove, you know, with the capital G, right?
Sergio Rios: [Laughing.]
Ears of Maize: Yeah. With that said, I have to compliment you: the spirit and the energy that you and the band put forth in the studio to recorded albums is incredible. And so knowing too that you have a series of live records in your catalog, what’s your relationship with a live record versus sort of what your goal is to capture in-studio, and can you sort of speak to that relationship?
Sergio Rios: You know, at its essence, every studio recording is from as far as the gestation and the basic rhythm– or the foundation of any song, whether it’s a song, or it’s metal is a performance. I do all the producing and recording for the band and for other bands as well. And that’s kind of the goal is to capture that moment of– of a real moment, you know, which is the performance. So as far as live recording, I mean, we record, uh, rhythm section live together, tracking, no headphones, and that moment of, I don’t know, that moment of performance where no one’s really thinking or trying too hard or thinking about recording and that’s– In translation that, as far as, let’s say being on stage or something like that, there’s no thought of going back and redoing it or something like that. So there’s stakes, I guess. And that’s when, I don’t know, that’s when magic happens sometimes, you know, when there’s not a lot of thought going into it, and there’s something that’s also– it’s got a stake of the moment that it’s– you can’t relive the moment.
Ears of Maize: Yeah, beautiful. The band is sort of a collection of many moments and it feels like sort of this living organism where it’s this living, breathing collective. Something that sort of resonates for me too in listening to your music and looking at some of the liner notes and the credits on it is just this spirit of collaboration. That’s something that’s been big in my life and sort of finding it in music is– can you speak to what collaboration means to you and how, um, you know, the band is sort of a sum of its parts.
Sergio Rios: I mean, you said it, it’s– or the whole is greater than any individual part, but also, uh, especially in Orgōne and what was created and what I’ve kind of carried into the rest of my life [laughing] in every other project. And it’s that, uh, you know, trusting that what’s beautiful about collaboration is– a true collaboration for me is not knowing the outcome necessarily, because you can’t, you can’t know some– another soul’s energy in another person’s– what’s in someone’s head, necessar– You know, you can talk about it and strive to achieve something, but it’s always gonna kind of become something of its own. And that’s the beauty. But the more– with different perspectives and different– that’s the beauty of it is, what the end of the– this separate talents that kind of come to the table to create this thing that then is something that has an identity and is unique and it’s of its own. Even when it’s one person, ring-leading and writing and everything, it can’t be that without the essence of what other people bring to the table, as far as performing an instrument or playing. I guess I can’t speak on, you know, bedroom producer, multi-instrumentalist as far as someone by themselves, [laughing] which is also awesome. I can’t do that, which I kind of do envy, but also I think it’s always best to bring someone else’s energy and elevate it, you know, beyond anything you can think of on your own almost, you know.
Ears of Maize: Do you have, um, anybody on your short list as far as collaborations that you, you dream of or–?
Sergio Rios: [Laughing] Um, I mean, that’s a long list. People that I greatly admire who, you know, peers and I mean– Tommy Brenneck and,you know, Leon Michels and that whole crew of Big Crown Records and, you know, the Daptone– I mean, you know, Daptone was the– gay rock and Daptone people were definitely [a] big part of what Orgōne, you know, influenced or really helped spark Orgōne into really pushing forward in terms of those early Daptone records and, you know, Desco or that, I mean, those were the resurgence of– kind of the soul resurgence and stuff.
Ears of Maize: What are artists or projects or even albums in the last year that you’ve really gotten a hold of or that have creeped into your ear? Whether it be, you know, a best record that you’ve discovered in the last year, or just even something old that you’re rediscovering with new ears and stuff you’re listening to at the moment?
Sergio Rios: Between working on projects and, you know, taking in music– having said that, that new El Michels Affair record is pretty awesome. Florence Adooni, the singer, she’s a Ghanaian, she’s from Ghana and she sings the song, Say Goodbye on that album. And she’s just awesome, incredible singer, has amazing character and soul. And she’s done a bunch of work with– I dunno if you’re familiar with Philophon Records? Max Weissenfeldt, that was the drummer with Poets of Rhythm. He’s had a studio in Ghana and he’s been– they do a lot of like African records and work with African artists, everything that label puts out is awesome. The El Michels album is really special. I’m trying to think of what the last vinyl I picked up was. Um, and that was, uh, Pop Makossa compilation. It was a compilation called Pop Makossa. That has just some amazing, amazing cuts on it. From Cameroon and, uh, you know, the whole kind of Makossa movement outta Cameroon. And, uh, that Manu Dibango was a huge part of, and there’s, there’s a lot of compilations that really speak to me, you know, along those lines. But I think that was the last piece– the last vinyl– the last new vinyl that it picked up.
Ears of Maize: Do you absorb a lot of these influences of music from digesting them from these records here at home? Or has, um, has travel dictated any of your music? Have you had boots on the ground of any of these places that have largely influenced you from around the world?
Sergio Rios: I mean, not really as far as with touring and, and things and– you know, I mean, the majority of traveling that I’ve done in the last few years has been touring and it’s hard to do digging, being on tour ’cause we’re always on the move and having more things to carry. [Laughing.] It’s always kind of tough. But, uh, so I can’t say that I’ve, you know, gone and picked things up, it’s more once I get home and kind of, you know, I’m going through playlists and digging through and checking things out. Oh, [interrupting himself] you know, who’s really – on the disco/soul front is Another Taste outta Holland. They’re making some amazing sounding, like, disco funk records, the label’s called Space Grapes. It’s kind of mind blowing these Dutch guys that are just– and it’s all recorded analog and all played live and you know, it’s just amazingly produced records. You know, humbling where it’s just, you know, we’ve been getting at something and then hearing these guys consistently put out things that it’s like, wow, you know, just raising the bar all around.
Ears of Maize: You definitely sold it to me. [Sergio laughs] Uh, “Space Grapes” said enough and, uh, yeah, I, I wrote it down and circled and starred. So that’ll be my homework after this.
Sergio Rios: Yeah. [Laughing.]
Ears of Maize: Great recommendation.
Sergio Rios: Another Taste is kind of the core band outta that label, so–
Ears of Maize: Well, while we’re talking about records that have sort of, um, been timely for us and have been monumental in certain years, I have to give you praise too. Your work on the Say She She record Silver was probably one of my records of the year in 2023. Really love the energy. Really love the sound. Listening to it, I was like, “Where has this been all my life?” sort of moment is– [Sergio laughs] you know, it just felt so harmonious to the pace of life and it just fit into– we sort of talked about that cinematic side of things? I found myself with that record in my ears and it just fit in the groove of me walking places or doing things in the East Bay. And just like– it carried a rhythm and a spirit that, I don’t know, I kept in my pocket and really took with me for, like I said, back in 2023 and ever since.
Sergio Rios: Awesome. Thank you so much, man. Yeah, that was a really special record and talking about collaboration, that was really collaboration with the Orgōne rhythm section and the Say She She trail that was really a synergistic coming together of two– You know what? Those women are incredible, they’re amazing. I mean, obviously they sound amazing on record. They’re amazing live, in performance, they really can come together. And it’s three people who create a single voice, you know, with these thick harmonies. And it’s– and it was a great synergy with the rhythm section of Orgōne, you know, kind of the same thing, but in the instrumental realm. And that was– thank you. That was– I’m really fond of that record– really special time. And really proud of the things we created together and, and how it sounds and how the record came out. Really, really appreciate that. Yeah. Speaking of, yes, cinematic, I know Silver, that the title cut, gets on some, you know, definitely like stoney cinematic kind of like it goes– it’s a bit of a journey on that one, so, yeah. [Laughing.]
Ears of Maize: And then do you wanna speak at all with your work on the Neil Frances record too? That was another one that I saw you had your hands on that was some great listening in the last year.
Sergio Rios: Thank you. I’ve worked with Neil since– he’s a genius. He’s just– I mean, he’s a virtuoso, and a genius talent and I’m really just honored to collaborate with people like that and be able to, you know, have mutual trust and, you know, and wanting to create something. Uh, I met him years ago when he was playing in an instrumental band called The Heard outta Chicago. And was working with them in the studio, and recording them. And that’s how we kind of– I think initially it was our mutual love of New Orleans music and The Meters and Allen Toussaint in particular. He got really deep into Toussaint and I think that that’s really what sparked songwriting for him, you know, that we’ve been working on and off ever since then. I guess that was back in 2017 or something. We did his first album Changes, which was very much on that New Orleans vibe. And then from then he took off and sort of started evolving into then more of synth heavy, like classic rock singer songwriter seventies vibes. And, and I’ve worked on this record that came out this year, with the third record that we’ve done together. And it’s been amazing to see him evolve. And, I mean, his evolution is amazing. It’s just from the songwriting and just the scope of, like, the kinds of things he wants to represent and encompass as far as that classic rock synth heavy kind of, you know– that, uh, from Elton John to, Wings, you know, a lot of Wings, kind of that very Homo Jamie, but not, but synth heavy but heavy on the hooks. And then into the kind of the more disco-y stuff. I mean, this last record he kind of blew my mind where he’s like, “Oh, I want– let’s do some strings.” And then he just sort of disappeared for a minute and then came back and was like, “Yeah, I taught myself how to do string arrangements.” And [laughing] had these, you know, worked on string charts and wrote some beautiful, uh, orchestration to some of these songs to get into that really– that’s getting more into the slick disco stuff that, you know, pulled up really well. Very proud of that record as well. And his band is– they’ve been touring so heavily for the past four years, so they’re a pretty seasoned bunch, you know, so it’s– with every successive record, it’s like, “Okay, now they’re super tight and really great bunch of guys, fun to work with.” I’m really lucky to just even be a cog in the machinery of the Say She She and the Neil Frances albums because those are wonderful artifacts, you know, to leave in the world or to have out in the world to just know that– how that exists now.
Ears of Maize: No, that’s really rad. And again, we sort of circle back here to that idea of collaboration. Just sitting here listening to you talk about this, I can feel the excitement that you exude and just this spirit of learning new things and being exposed to things that you knew, but through new angles and getting your hands on like the actual production and process of all of this. Like–
Sergio Rios: Sure.
Ears of Maize: It seems really evolutionary.
Sergio Rios: Yeah. Yeah. You know, and kinda also always, you know, definitely discovering something new and in Orgōne and the band, or when somebody brings this song to the table, it’s like, “But I haven’t heard this.” And then it’s like, “Oh, wow!” You know? Dig in and you know what? Like, ‘Oh, this is so rad. I can’t believe I haven’t heard– why is this rad?” Not picking it apart, but just really wanting to like, dig into all the elements of it and uh, you know, definitely that. And then also conversely like that, you know, that whole zen kind of white belt thing that’s like no matter what level, it’s like always go back to beginner level white belt that it’s like going back and seeing– you know, Neil’s– one of the songs we just sat around listening to Funkadelic, you know, and then it’s just like something that I’ve had in my life for, you know, since I was a teenager that I’ve loved. And it’s just, “Oh yeah, I forgot that.” It’s like going back and then studying from that aspect in the studio, like, “Yeah, what makes this ride?” What is the– what are they picking, the elements of production that you know– and that it’s like either getting inspired by that. I love just always going back to basics of, “You kind of nailed it thing.” Like a new perspective, like I never noticed that part, or I never heard quite that thing. Or, I mean, there’s so many– You can thrive really just on like three records. [They both laugh.] Discovering like, oh man, those hate claps–
Ears of Maize: Yeah. [Laughing.] Why are those drums– why is that snare so tight? Right. You know?
Sergio Rios: Oh yeah.
Ears of Maize: You have those moments. I even had a moment like that, um, in sort of prep for our conversation here where I was going through some of your music and, um, on the Undercover Mixtape that, um– your version of Funkadelics’ Cosmic Slop, like, that is a forever record for me. And to hear it in like through your eyes and ears, like– you hear new parts about it and you appreciate its framework, its structure, like, its bones.
Sergio Rios: Oh yeah.
Ears of Maize: But then also too, to see somebody else put their lens on it, it just makes you love it all the more and realize what it is you love about it, right?
Sergio Rios: For sure. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And that was, you know, that’s kind of an interrelation of between the Hardcore Jollies live version and then, you know, bits of the, as far as like the background vocal, you know, like, oh wait– I mean, you’re never gonna match the original studio recording, but– And so as far as the arrangement, those recordings weren’t recorded with the intention of, “Hey, let’s record a bunch of covers.” It was just, you know, I– I engineer and I run kind of like our headquarters recording studio, so there was definitely, I– I’m always recording everything and archiving everything. And some of that stuff was from rehearsals, just rehearsing stuff for our stage show. Some of it was like– Terry Cole from Coalmine heard and he was like, “Oh, we gotta put this out.” So he kind of– he really championed it, you know, it was like, “Oh, oh, okay. Yeah. Wow.” You know, so it’s– especially that version of Cosmic Slop, I give props to Terin Ector who sings on that. He just crushes it and, um– I mean, that’s what really made it like, “Oh, wow, this is– yeah, he’s really– it’s for real.”
Ears of Maize: Yeah.
Sergio Rios: Like, we’re talking about that, where it’s just like, there’s no BS here.
Ears of Maize: Yeah. Well, and too, as a listener, I also have to thank you for, you know, putting out stuff like that – demos or recordings of stuff like, like as a fan of your music and the sound– Like, like we feed on that, you know we’re just like–
Sergio Rios: Thanks man.
Ears of Maize: Rats at the cheese.
Sergio Rios: Oh, me too, me too.
Ears of Maize: Keep putting stuff like that out. I appreciate that.
Sergio Rios: Thank you. Thank you. That means the world, because that’s because I feel those exact same things of how many hours I spent going through any Meters bootleg or things that– you know.
Ears of Maize: Yeah.
Sergio Rios: Random, crappy recording, like, oh, hear that moment of when they were, or you know, there’s so many unfinished Funkadelic, you know, kind of demos and– There’s hours and hours on YouTube of like, you know, unreleased or unfinished Funkadelic jams or bits. And I mean, I eat that up.
Ears of Maize: I’m right there with you.
Sergio Rios: I understand that–
Ears of Maize: Yes.
Sergio Rios: Fully.
Ears of Maize: Well, and I think that goes back to again, where we started about, like, when it comes to funk music or music with soul and with a human element, I want it real and I want it raw.
Sergio Rios: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You know, an honest representation and warts and all, you know?
Ears of Maize: Yeah, yeah.
Sergio Rios: I mean, that’s the nature of art. It’s that, you know, it’s gonna have personality and character in some kind of– not a flaw, but just, you know, I mean, that’s perfection’s not– there’s no such thing, so–
Ears of Maize: Yeah. You know how people will ask you that age old question of what kind of music do you listen to? And so for me it’s been like, it’s not necessarily soul music, but it’s music with soul. It’s–
Sergio Rios: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I totally get that.
Ears of Maize: It’s– it’s the heartbeat. It’s the person Yeah. It’s the musicianship. It’s the blood.
Sergio Rios: It’s music with heart, you know, you can listen to something, it’s like, “Oh, this is– it’s true. It’s got heart.” It’s honest. I don’t know. You can hear it. You can hear it when you hear something you don’t like, it’s like, oh yeah. You know, they’re kind of faking it or something. [Chuckling.]
Ears of Maize: Yea yeah. I loved your, um, addition of the Wings reference when talking about the Neil Frances project. There’s no shame in loving Wings. It took me a while to get there. [Sergio laughs.] Um, it was a sort of a pandemic 2020 project of mine that I just went full on on the whole wings discography. And I’m a changed man.
Sergio Rios: Yeah.
Ears of Maize: It hits.
Sergio Rios: It took me a while. It took me– you know, I didn’t grow up being a Beatles fan and a Paul McCarney-phile. You know, I was always more of a Rolling Stones– kind of, you know, if you make a comparison that it’s like, oh yeah. Like the raw, boozy kind of, you know.
Ears of Maize: Yeah. See, I grew up a Who kid.
Sergio Rios: Oh, well. You know, but that’s more on the kind of like– yeah, these guys were, you know, explosive. Uh, you know, I mean, talking about The Who it’s like, that’s a band.
Ears of Maize: [Laughing.]That’s right. Yes.
Sergio Rios: Um, yeah, so discovering Wings late– But yeah, I mean, like the production on those albums– I mean, even like that thing, the most popular song, Band On The Run– but that intro half of it, the instrumental bit, it’s like that is, I mean, one of the best– Oh man, it’s so– that’s rad.
Ears of Maize: Oh yeah. Cool. I’m glad you’re down with it. The latest record, uh, Chimera out 2024. Um, that’s been getting some good rotation here at the station. I’ve enjoyed that listen, congrats on that. I also wanted to, uh, plug your upcoming shows here in our backyard in the Bay, uh, December 18th, you’re coming to San Francisco and the Independent at 8:00 PM and then you’re sliding down the coast, December 19th, playing Santa Cruz at MO’S Alley. We’re excited to have you here in our backyard. Any final thoughts?
Sergio Rios: We got, um, next door Golden Records coming, hopefully midyear next year. Yeah, I was super proud of the Chimera record, it was really, you know, that was definitely going on the more kind of stony, psychedelic-y, you know, Afro Hdu vibes and, and we’ve got a whole ‘nother album with the Congolese Singer Mermans, so that’s there gonna be an album that just features him, that’s– really excited about on some heavy Afro funk. He sings in Lingala, which is one of the Congolese dialects. Uh, super excited to be playing some shows. You know, Orgōne rhythm section has been backing– has been touring behind, Say She She for the better part of the last few years. So, Orgōne shows are, you know, a bit rare, you know, when we can actually do some runs. So we’re, we’re chomping at the bit, you know, we’ve been playing the Say She She stuff that, uh, that’s very much on along one line that to come back and– It’s gonna be instrumental heavy and percussion heavy and horn heavy. So, you know, we want to bring some heavy, heavy, heavy Afro funk vibes and we’re chomping at the bit and revving to go for these.
Ears of Maize: Hell yeah.
Sergio Rios: Really, really excited.
Ears of Maize: We look forward to it. Again, thank you. Thank you for your time here, Sergio. Again, I’m Ears of Maize in conversation here with Sergio Rios. Again, you’re listening to 90.7 FM, KALX Berkeley.
