The below transcript is for the above archive interview, which was originally broadcast over the KALX airwaves in 2015.
Rich: So I’m talking today with the legendary Herb Alpert. He’s sold over 72 million records, both with the Tijuana Brass and solo records and various collaborations most often with his wife, Lani Hall, who’s the uh former lead singer for Sergio Mendes’s Brasil ‘66. He’s won nine Grammys and he is the only artist to have number one records both as a vocalist for This Guy’s In Love[…] in 1968, and as an instrumentalist for 1979’s Rise. He’s also the co-founder of A&M Records with Jerry Moss, and he’s a gallery-exhibited painter and sculptor. Mr. Alpert, it’s a real honor to speak with you this morning.
Herb Alpert: Thanks, Rich. You got all the facts right! You know, a lot of times people like, uh– they’re not quite sure of some of the things that happened. And they also say, “And now we have Herb Albert.” [Laughs.]
Rich: Yeah. Well, I have to admit that I sometimes get the “b” in there instead of the “p” as well. I have to concentrate. But I am a big fan of yours. Uh, so let’s kick it off. Talk a bit about your new album Come Fly With Me. I’ve been listening to it the last week and a half, and it’s really growing on me and. It has that, you know, that unmistakable, Herb Alpert trumpet sound. It’s so exuberant and, uh, distinctive that you really pick up on it very quickly. This particular album, I think, has kind of a Caribbean sort of feel to it. A number of the tracks have kind of a reggae-type base to them. Was that something that you had planned kind of before you started the album, or was that something that grew out of the sessions as you were recording it?
Herb Alpert: Well, it usually grows out of the songs that I wanna record. Um, when I decided to do Come Fly With Me, I mean, the only record that I really remember was Frank Sinatra’s version.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: And I thought it would be interesting to take a trip to, uh, the Caribbean. So what I– after I play the bridge, I added steel drums.
Rich: Mm Hmm.
Herb Alpert: The minute you hear the steel drums in there, you think, “Well, we’re going to the Caribbean someplace.” And I– I like those feelings of, you know, taking you someplace, ’cause I had that experience in 1962 when, um, we started A&M Records with my record, The Lonely Bull. That was 1962. The record was top 10 in uh, in the country. And I got this letter from this lady in Germany who said, “Dear Mr. Alpert, thank you for taking me on this vicarious trip to Tijuana.” You know, when I read that letter, I kind of chuckled and then I thought about it. I said, “Wow, that lady was transported, you know, just by the sound of the music.” So I’ve always tried to make, you know, visual music.
Rich: Well, that that was a deliberate, yeah–
Herb Alpert: Pardon me?
Rich: It was a deliberate choice on your part with The Lonely Bull ’cause you added the, you know, the sort of mariachi kind of intro and then also like the sound effects in that. So it really did give you that sort of sonic picture of what was going on.
Herb Alpert: Yeah. Well it wasn’t a mariachi intro, it was– there was a brass band in the stands–
Rich: Okay.
Herb Alpert: –With the bull fights I used to go to.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: And they used to announce the various events and this, uh– Well, they usually played [sings a little melody] and then the bull would come out, or the matador would come out. Um, that was the start of the idea. And then, you know, I had some disc jockey friends after I recorded it, and they said, “Where’s the hook?” I played the record for them.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: I said, “Well, what do you mean the hook? There’s no hook. This is an instrumental, you know, tune.” So I thought about the hook and I had a friend that was, uh, the head of engineering at Liberty Records. He had a tape of 30,000 people screaming “Olé!” at a bull fight. So I put that right in the front–
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: –On, on the intro. And that, you know, was the so-called hook. And that’s how things started. So, but the point is, I’ve always thought about, you know, when I do songs that are familiar with people and myself, you know, I try to do ’em in a way that they haven’t been heard quite that way before. So that’s my pursuit usually with recording.
Rich: Yeah. Well, speaking of going places, that is my favorite of your albums, uh, the album Going Places, which was, I think, your third album. And, uh, once again, it sort of takes you in that case, not just to one place, but sort of pops you around the world. Really fun album and I really love the production on that, uh, album.
Herb Alpert: Yeah, that’s one of my favorite albums. It’s also one of the best selling of the Tijuana Brass albums outside of, uh, Whipped Cream and Other Delights, which, you know, we’re celebrating our 50th year.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: Whipped Cream. This, um, 2015, it was recorded in, you know, it– uh, 1965.
Rich: It’s another aspect of your music, I think, is that a lot of those Tijuana Brass tracks are 50 years old now, or, you know, slightly more, slightly less. And, uh, they sound, you know, as fresh and as exciting now as they did when you recorded them. There’s a real, I think, timeless quality to your horn playing.
Herb Alpert: Well, you know, I must say, um, I think there’s a certain honesty to the way I play. You know, I don’t try to force it. I don’t try to, you know, do something that’s going to excite someone else. I, I try to, put a feeling through the horn that excites me. And that’s real. That’s honesty– I’m basically a jazz musician.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: So I want to have that, um, of the moment feeling. And that’s what I did on all those– everything I record, when I have a track, if I’m playing to a track, I’m playing it for the first time. I’m– I’m not, uh, rehearsing it. I’m not, you know, going over trying to find certain notes that might sound great if I’m ad-libbing.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: I just try to make it feel real and that’s how I respond.
Rich: Yeah. Well you have that real sort of like, uh, on songs like Spanish Flea or Tijuana Taxi, you have that real sort of exuberant, like fun-time kind of feel. But I think that you also, especially on songs like The Lonely Bull or More And More Amor, uh, you have this real lyrical kind of– it’s like a happy/sad feeling you–
Herb Alpert: [Laughs.] You got it on the nose. Yeah, of course. My father was from Russia, so [chuckling]–
Rich: Yeah. That’ll teach you about sadness, yeah.
Herb Alpert: But I love to play, you know. I wake up every morning thinking about the trumpet. I started playing when I was eight. I have was, I was very fortunate because there was a– in my grammar school, here in LA, there was, uh, a music appreciation class, and they had a table filled with various instruments. I happened to pick up the trumpet.
Rich: Yeah, I was wondering about that because both of your parents, they played string instruments, right?
Herb Alpert: Well, my dad played by ear. He was, you know, he brought his mandolin from, uh, I don’t know actually if he brought it with him, ’cause he, he traveled alone from, from Russia to, uh, the United States when he was 16 years old. And you know, he was qu– quite a hero man. He did, uh–
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: – You know, he brought it, he finally, you know, got a job and little, little by little worked his way to the point where he was able to bring his entire family over to the, the United States.
Rich: Yeah. That, those immigrants were, uh, hardy stock. You know, that’s, that’s a big leap going from sort of the old country to the new country and, uh–
Herb Alpert: Well, especially when you’re 16 and you don’t speak the language and you’re alone. So it was a heroic move.
So anyways, I, you know, I started, um, because of that advantage I had when I was eight years old, and that’s why I’m very, you know, excited about trying to help, uh, other kids. Uh–
Rich: Yeah ‘cause that’s the main focus of your philanthropy, isn’t it? Is, uh, music education for children and through high school, I think?
Herb Alpert: Oh, I think so. I think, yeah, I think a, a core subject of all, you know, kids’ education should be the art, some form of art. It doesn’t have to be playing an instrument. It could be poetry, dance, uh, writing, uh, acting. It doesn’t really, um, I think as long as they can experience their own uniqueness. There’s a chance they might appreciate the uniqueness in others.
So I, I think it’s a big win-win. And then it, that by, you know, the discipline of being able to, uh, do that, it, it spills over into the academic. So I, I think’s a win-win.
Rich: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it’s vital, I think, work that you’re doing because, you know, nowadays, uh, so much of education as being sort of, the funding’s being cut back and the focus is being narrowed.
So for you to sort of support these arts programs, uh, is definitely vital.
Herb Alpert: Well, I, I get pleasure out of giving back. You know, I think it’s, um, it’s only, it’s the right thing to do.
Rich: So, back to the trumpet, the instruments are sitting on the table and you’re an 8-year-old Herb Alpert. Uh, what is it do you think about the trumpet that drew you to pick that one up as opposed to, you know, a clarinet or a saxophone or–
Herb Alpert: Well, for, first off, I was kind of a small guy, so I, I– I liked the shape of it. I, so I, I just picked it up and tried to make a sound, and obviously I couldn’t, I thought you’d just blow hot air into the mouthpiece.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: So it didn’t work like that. But once I found that I could make a noise and that. You know, I, I started taking some, uh, lessons from private, private teachers, uh, it was making a lot of, the sound it was making was speaking for me.
I was super shy. And when all this noise came out of the horn, it was talking.
[Laughs]
Rich: Yeah, it definitely is when, when you play it. Um, so do you have like a, are you like a B.B. King type where you have like your, your one trumpet that you play? Or are you less, uh, sort of tied, you’re, you’re more tied to the trumpet than a particular trumpet?
Herb Alpert: Well, it’s not about the trumpet. You know, I was studying, uh, uh, years ago with a teacher in New York who used to call the, uh, instrument a piece of plumbing.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: His point was, you know, it’s not about the instrument. You, the body, the person, the soul is the instrument. So I, I never really gave too much importance to the instrument other than with all the Tijuana Brass records. I did record, uh, with one particular trumpet.
It was a Chicago Benge trumpet that I made, uh, uh, that I bought for $300 and–
Rich: mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: –I forgot what year, but I liked the sound of it. But you know, through the years I’ve changed many times on different horns.
Rich: So, you know, as a performer, as a, the guy playing the trumpet, you really try to be in, you know, in the moment to kind of experience it for the first time as you’re doing the take.
But, uh, when you put on your producer hat, you need to have a little bit more of a sense of the target that you’re shooting for. Is that the case or are you that way with your production as well, where you’re kind of feeling it out as you go through the recording?
Herb Alpert: Well, you know, there’s something I learned in the early, early days way before A&M, you know, when I was working at Keen Records, my then partner Lou Adler. We, you know, wrote a song with Sam Cooke, the great Sam Cooke, and I learned a lot of things from Sam.
He was, you know, a gospel singer. He was the lead singer with the, um, soul-
Rich: The Soul Stirrers. Yeah. Great harmonies.
Herb Alpert: –And um, he just had a big, a really interesting beat on how to, um, make music. It was really from the soul. It was, I think great music is not made with the ears. I mean, you’re not listening with your ears. You’re listening when it resonates, you’re listening through your soul. And that, that’s the beauty of, uh, of the arts.
I think there’s a huge mystery when it comes to the arts and when something touches you as a, as a listener. You’re, um, you’re, you’re, you’re touched in a very profound way.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: So Sam used to, you know, say, ‘Man, it’s not about, it doesn’t matter if you’re black or white or what kind of echo chamber you’re using. It, It’s just people are listening to a cold piece of wax, man. And it either makes it or it don’t’ you know.
And he, he used to, uh, interview, uh, potential artists for his own label with, with his eyes closed so he wouldn’t be intimidated with, uh, you know, if somebody could dance like Michael Jackson.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: So, um, I learned to do it that way, and then I became an audience to what I was doing.
Uh, so when I listened to my recordings. Uh, even the in, in the Tijuana Brass days, uh, when I’m listening to a playback, I’m not listening to the guy playing the trumpet. I’m listening to the overall feeling and, and if, if it touches me, I stop. And if it doesn’t touch me, then I try to find out a way to make it, uh, get, find a way to get it to the point where I feel good about it.
Rich: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that, I think that especially on that, on those albums around the time of Whipped Cream. But, but ideally for me, the Going Places, there’s something about the production that it’s, it’s completely there, but it’s not, um, there’s a simplicity in a directness to it that I really respond to.
Herb Alpert: Yeah I think, uh, simplicity plays a big part. But I tell you, the big, the big, big, big, the big deal of, uh, recording or, you know, something that, uh, happens to touch, uh, you like when you hear it–
Rich: Mm-hmm
Herb Alpert: –Is about the song. It’s about the melody.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: You know, you can, you can take a– a bad melody and a bad, you know, lyric and, and try to make, uh, you know, lemonade out of it.
And it’s gonna be really tough.
Rich: Yeah.
Herb Alpert: But you take a really great melody. Um, you can have a so-so recording of it and it’s still gonna be pretty good.
Rich: Uh, you had touched briefly on your songwriting days prior to A&M when you came out of, I think it was USC, in the late fifties. Your initial job was as a songwriter.
Were you also doing like session work as a trumpeter, or you were making your living in those late ‘50 days?
Herb Alpert: Well, when I–
Rich: as a writer?
Herb Alpert: –came out of SC, uh, I was drafted in the Army.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: So I spent a couple years, uh, at the Presidio in San Francisco.
Rich: That’s a nice posting.
Herb Alpert: – Six Army band. And I was the, the, the solo trumpet player with the Six Army band.
And then I realized that I had to really come up with my own way of doing it, my own sound. Which is, uh, the key to I think success in, in the arts. You have to do it your own way. And uh, when I heard Les Paul, the record he did with his wife, uh, How High the Moon.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: And, and Les layered his guitar several times.
Rich: And her vocals as well, yeah.
Herb Alpert: He created this really unusual sound. I tried doing that with my trumpet. I had two tape machines in my little studio at home, and I went from machine to machine, and then I came up with this sound that was the genesis of the Tijuana Brass sound.
Rich: But at the same time that you were doing these trumpet experiments, you were also, uh, writing songs for people like Sam Cooke and others?
Herb Alpert: Oh, yeah. Uh, but this was before A&M.
Rich: Oh, okay. Yeah.
Herb Alpert: This was, uh, in that period with, uh, Sam–
Rich: with Lou Adler?
Herb Alpert: Lou, Sam, me. And Lou Adler and I, you know, helped Sam write that Wonderful World song.
Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: “Don’t know much about history”.
Rich: Yeah. It’s a beautiful song.
Herb Alpert: And we wrote another song for Sam that was a, not really a big record. But it was a, it, it was fun to see all these recordings done by, uh, these great artists that, uh, really, uh, something I had not witnessed before. And I learned a lot about production and how to produce a record.
Rich: So, as the songwriter, you were involved in the recording as well, sometimes?
Herb Alpert: Uh, not with Sam. Sam’s producer was, um, Bumps Blackwell, I think–
Rich: Oh, really? Okay.
Herb Alpert: –I’d session and hold the music and, you know, run for coffee for people.
[Laughs]
Rich: Yeah.
Herb Alpert: But yeah, no, I was just–
Rich: Just to be in the room is awesome.
Herb Alpert: I was just in the room, man.
And it was beautiful ’cause I was witness to some of the great, uh, gospel groups. Uh, there were, they had a group called the Pilgrim Travelers. The five guys and one guy was playing, um, drums on, just on a snare drum with, with brushes kind of quietly. And this group would, would romp on and, uh, make you move.
Like you, they were, it was a heavy duty rock and roll, you know?
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: And I, at that point I realized you, you didn’t need a drum bashing two and four at you. You just had to have the right, um, motion and the, and the right intent to make something really feel, uh, you know, um, with a, with an, an energy that made you feel like a special motion was, was happening in the room.
So I learned a lot from those days.
Rich: So how did you, uh, go from, from that to sort of hooking up with Jerry Moss and starting a label?
Herb Alpert: Well, at, at one point. You know, I was working at, in addition to working with, uh, you know, Lou and, and Keen Records, I was also doing, um, side job at a local gym. Washing, uh, the showers and also instructing a little bit.
And, and one, this one guy came in and said, ‘Man, you should be in the movies’. So I got e- excited about that. So I, Lou and I parted ways and I, I asked this guy to, you know, do what he could to get me in the movies ’cause–
Rich: Well, I was wondering because you have those, uh, movie star looks.
Herb Alpert: Well maybe I did at the time, you know, so I, he got me hooked up at Paramount Studios. And I walk into the studio and there were, you know, 10 guys there, that were, uh, under contract, that all looked better than me and probably you know, could act a lot better.
But I did audition and they wanted me to, uh, you know, take some lessons, which I did. I studied with Jeff Corey, and then I studied with Leonard Nimoy. Of all people.
Rich: Huh.
Herb Alpert: Yeah. That was before Leonard became a, you know, Dr.–
Rich: Spock
Herb Alpert: –Spock or Mr. Spock, or–
Rich: Yeah.
Herb Alpert: And it was a great experience, but I realized I wasn’t good. I, I just, I didn’t have it. I, I was faking it because maybe I looked good.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: But I didn’t have the uh, that other element, which is called talent.
[Laughs]
Rich: Well, you had talent, it was just in a different area.
Herb Alpert: Yeah. So I, I’m just delighted you know that I’m able to be a musician and I get to paint and sculpt and do the things I like.
I have nine huge, huge sculptures at the, the, uh, uh, museum in, uh, Chicago, the Natural History Museum.
Rich: Yeah, I’ve seen video of them. They’re, they really are huge. They’re like 30 to 70 feet tall or so?
Herb Alpert: Uh, well, no, they’re from 13 to 18 feet tall.
Rich: Okay.
Herb Alpert: And, and they’re bronze and they’re totems and they’re, um, very, um. Hmm I don’t know.
Rich: Now they–
Herb Alpert: Yeah [chuckles]
Rich: –They remind me of totems, but, uh, so–
Herb Alpert: Well they are totems. That’s how I got the idea.
Rich: So when you’re, when you’re designing them, or when you’re initially sculpting them, what size are they at that point? They’re like a foot tall or–
Herb Alpert: Well, they could be like four, four inches tall.
Rich: Oh okay.
Herb Alpert: You know, I, I work in my, my kitchen with, uh, wax. I get this, the, uh, kind of the design that I like, and then we transfer it to like maybe three feet or four, five feet.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: And when it looks like, uh, it wants to go up higher, we, uh, take it up. Some pieces for some reason, some small pieces, uh, you have a kind of a monumental type look to them.
So, uh, I don’t know. I’ve just been having fun doing that.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: And I’ve been doing it for many years. Of course, I’ve been painting for over 45 years, so. It, it’s all, uh, in the arts. You know, I’m a right brain guy. I’m, I’m 85% in the right side of my brain, so this is what I love to do each day. And Lani and I have been doing concerts for the last, uh, nine years.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: On and off around the country. We just got back from Japan. We played at the Blue Note at Tokyo, which was, uh, pretty interesting. So we’re, uh. I’m doing what I love to do and that’s what I hope most people get a chance to do, to follow their passion and, and when they wake up in the morning, feel good about what your, uh, pursuit is for that particular day.
Rich: It definitely feels like the life well lived.
Herb Alpert: Well, yeah. You know, I had my downs. It wasn’t like all peaches and cream, you know, I had a period where I couldn’t play the horn. I was going through a divorce. And I, uh, lost the ability to, you know, play the trumpet properly–
Rich: Hmm
Herb Alpert: –I was stuttering through the horn.
I, I couldn’t get a note out cleanly. So, uh, it took a while to work that out. And like I said earlier, you know, this trumpet teacher in New York told me that the, the horn is just a piece of plumbing. And I got that straight because I thought that maybe, uh, so– there was something wrong with my, my instrument that allowed me to do that.
But the instrument is you, you know?
Rich: Yeah.
Herb Alpert: You’re the instrument. You’re the horn. I– in fact, you know, this, as an aside in the sixties, I, I had an idea for a television show that I thought would’ve been really great. It was to have one trumpet. Put it on a stand. And at that time I could have got Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Harry James, myself, and, and other people that had a distinct sound, pick up that same horn.
And people would be amazed how, how much different that one horn would sound with each of the people playing it.
Rich: That is a great idea. And you actually, you did, uh, various, uh, specials, television specials with people like, uh, Louis Armstrong.
Herb Alpert: Oh yeah, I did a special, um, I was the moderator and Louis was one of the guests, and we, uh, played together and then we, I, I interviewed Louis who was like a tremendous person.
I– I mean, through the years I’ve had a chance to meet some of the great artists of all time, but Louis was, was really uniquely special ’cause his personality, his personality came right through the instrument.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: His, he was that type of guy. So his joyfulness, his, his fun. He was a fun-loving guy. Uh, he could be serious, but he you know, he just had this magnetic, uh, personality.
And at one point in, in the interview, I asked, I said, ‘Louis’, I said, ‘You know, I know, uh, you know you got this, uh, “Satchmo” that some people call you’. But I said, ‘What are you really, really close friends call you’? He said. ‘Irving’.
[Laughs]
Rich: Um, yeah, speaking of like the different, different people picking up the same horn and sounding different.
Another of your albums that I I like is the, uh, live album that you did with Hugh Masekela because it’s speaks to exactly what you were saying. Where it’s almost like two, uh, vocalists kind of trading verses back and forth to hear you two play, because it’s really distinctive each and your own sort of, you know, sound.
Herb Alpert: Yeah, well, uh, he’s a great player. Hugh and I are, are a good match ’cause he, when he heard my music, he said it’s, it’s very similar to what’s happening in South Africa. So we got together, we toured together, recorded two albums, and it was fun, fun playing with him. But in terms of coming through the horn, you know, I’m very, very conscious when I play.
And I’m doing a standard song or a song that’s known to people. Uh, I’m very conscious of the lyric. And as example of that, if you listen to the Come Fly With Me album–
Rich: mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: –I did a version of, um, George Harrison’s Something.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: And when I play that, I’m playing that lyric right through the horn. I know that lyric.
I knew George Harrison, he recorded for A&M after he left The Beatles. And, um, I love that melody and I wanted to be faithful to, you know, the lyric and the melody.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: Years ago I was, this was in the sixties. This is an interesting story that I was on Sunset and Vine. There used to be a big music, um, store there.
And I, as I was walking to the place, I saw, uh, Harry Warren who had the number one record. There was an old time, uh, composer.
Rich: So how old was he at this point?
Herb Alpert: Pardon me?
Rich: How old was he at this point in like in his sixties or seventies?
Herb Alpert: Oh he was, he was up there. I’m not sure. Like maybe 65, 70, maybe older. Anyways, I, so I, um. He had the number one record with, um, the, um, I Only Have Eyes for You, that record– [sings a quick scat].
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: –That one.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: And so we, we started chat– chatting. I said, ‘Harry, you, you must be really excited about, uh, you got the number one record’. He says, ‘Well, I’ll tell you the truth. I hate it’.
[Laughs]
I said, ‘What do you hate about it’? He says, ‘I don’t– they, they ruined it. They ruined my melody. They didn’t…’, you know, so in other words, my point is he was not happy with, with this song because of his integrity as a, as an artist.
And I thought, gee, man, I’m gonna be, I, I want to try to be faithful to these great artists that write, you know, these wonderful songs and, and, uh, do something that, that I hope they’re proud of.
Rich: Yeah. ‘Cause you’ve done sort of standards, you know, at least a few standards in, you know, nearly all of your records. And I was kind of wondering, the different challenge between recording a song that’s less known and recording something like, Come Fly With Me, or Take The A Train or Blue Skies, that the song is already in people’s minds. And so, you’re kind of working both with and off their expectations as you’re recording it.
Herb Alpert: Well, definitely and it’s more of a challenge ’cause I don’t wanna just, you know, record the song the way it, it’s been heard before. Now on Take The A Train, on the, uh, album, the new album. Yeah. It’s really unusual.
Rich: Yeah. That’s the most, that’s the most radically, kind of altered.
Herb Alpert: Uh, completely because, uh, it wasn’t written as a waltz and I’m doing it in three, four, and it’s, uh, every time, every recording that I’ve ever heard has nothing to do with, uh, the way I approached it.
So I, I– I feel it, it was really successful, ’cause it’s, um, getting a lot of feedback from that particular cut and I don’t know.
Rich: Yeah.
Herb Alpert: I, I like, uh, you know, that challenge of trying to do something that’s different.
Rich: Yeah. Well I also like that you included, uh, Sweet and Lovely. Which is, you know, a song, I think it goes back either to the late twenties, early thirties. I’m most familiar with the Artie Shaw version. But to hear that kind of a new version that I hadn’t heard before was, uh, very fun.
Herb Alpert: Yeah. Well, here again, that’s the melody man.
The, it’s a great melody. And there was a hit record of it in the sixties with, uh. Nino Tempo and, um–
Rich: Oh, that’s right. Yeah, that’s right. April Stevens
Herb Alpert: –And, and April. Um, so I, I try to do it in a way that was different. And here again, you know, like I say, the melody rings and when there’s a good melody, it, uh.
As, uh, they say on the Seinfeld show, “It’s, it’s gold Jerry”! It’s gold.
[Laughs]
Rich: I, man, I’m forgetting the name now. Was it Knight Train? There are Blue, Blue Knight, I think. Uh, there’s Blue Skies, but doesn’t, there’s, there’s one that’s kind of a, a more, uh, lilting, kind of lyrical one.
Herb Alpert: The one that’s a little more aggressive. You mean like, uh–
Rich: Uh, no, it’s a little bit softer. The, the aggressive one that I really like is, uh, Cheeky, I think is really fun.
Herb Alpert: Oh yeah. Well, that’s cool. Cheeky was written, uh–
Rich: Uh, Love Affair is the one that I was thinking of.
Herb Alpert: Oh Love Affair
Rich: The, the soft one–
Herb Alpert: That’s the one my wife, uh, is crazy about. My wife’s a jazzer. She loves jazz, she loves, you know, I, when I improvise and, uh, I did that with my friend Eddie Del Barrio, who’s like a genius composer.
And, uh, he’s, um, you know, just, um, has an unusual mind for, uh, making music.
Rich: Mm-hmm. So as you were working with A&M, you were sort of the co-founder with, uh, Jerry Moss. At the time, like in the mid sixties, the Tijuana Brass was kind of running rampant. You were like recording several albums a year. You were going out on tour.
You had the television specials. Like how, how did you actually include working in a label at the same time?
Herb Alpert: Well, I was fortunate to have a partner that had a business background.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: I, I, uh, I wing it, you know, I’m a, like I said, I’m 85% on the right side of my brain, so business is not my forte.
Although, you know, I, I have a good feeling for, for people.
Rich: But were you making a lot of sort of decisions on who was being signed in that, you were in that process definitely weren’t you?
Herb Alpert: Oh, definitely. It was just the two of us when we, uh, well, that was the advantage of, of, uh, A&M because it was just a partnership.
It was on a handshake and, uh, if I wanted to record somebody or, or sign someone, uh, you know, that I just said, I’m signing the Carpenters, done, you know?
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: Uh, we both auditioned Sergio Mendes & Brasil ’66, and we both agreed, uh, we liked them.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: And then one of the pivotal moments in the, in the company’s history was, uh, we recorded and signed Waylon Jennings in 1964.
Rich: I was gonna ask you about that. ‘Cause that’s one of the, you know, ’cause most of your production was either for the Tijuana Brass or Sergio Mendes. But you were, you actually were the producer on that, uh, Waylon Jennings record.
Herb Alpert: Yeah I recorded Waylon’s. I used to go to Phoenix to record ’em. And then I did a record called Four Strong Winds with, with Waylon that, uh, Chet Atkins from, um, RCA heard and loved it and loved Waylon’s sound.
And it made some overtures to Waylon when he gets out of the contract that he’d like to talk to him, which he, you know, shouldn’t have done. That was like, not the cricket, but uh. Waylon told us about it and Waylon was kind of excited ’cause you know, Chet Atkins was the Messiah when it comes to, uh–
Rich: yeah, he was, he was–
Herb Alpert: To get into country music.
Rich: –The producer yeah.
Herb Alpert: Yeah. And we had three years left on what Waylon’s contract, and Waylon told us about this opportunity and Jerry and I both felt that he would be best suited to, uh, you know, go record with, uh, Chet Atkins. And so we, uh, let him out of the contract. I remember the, the day that we, uh, signed his release and I looked at Jerry and said, um, I think this guy’s gonna be a big star.
And Jerry’s agreed. We both agreed that Waylon–
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: –Was gonna be a superstar. But we let ’em out of the contract. And I got goosebumps that day and I got, I get goosebumps when I think about it because, uh, if we could be that honest with artists and do it for the right reason, then uh, I think we were gonna be hugely successful in that. Uh–
Rich: And you were, yes. Yeah.
So one. One sort of curious, uh, sort of side thing for me, and I don’t know if you, you don’t wanna answer it, uh, feel free not to, but the, the Sex Pistols kind of incident that seemed like a weird, uh, mix of label and artist when you guys, uh, signed the Sex Pistols after they got booted from EMI.
Herb Alpert: Right. Well, it was signed out of our company in, um–
Rich: So it was a subsidiary?
Herb Alpert: And, um, I wasn’t in favor of it. I didn’t understand their music and I most, and, and really didn’t understand their energy. They had, you know, negative energy that I–
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: –Just didn’t like. But, uh, it all worked out for, uh, the, the right reasons.
Rich: Hmm. Well that’s, yeah, once again, it’s that sort of karma of like, you know, running a, running a label, sort of, uh, forthrightly paying off, I guess in the end.
Herb Alpert: Well, you know, music is, uh, is very personal. It’s subjective, you know?
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: I, people used to come into, um. Or I used to go into the, the promotion staff, you know, once we started getting, uh, a lot of people involved in our company and, uh, play ’em a mu– a song that I thought was gonna be a hit or that was good and they’d be staring out the window and vice versa.
You know, you, you, um. I don’t think anybody had a beat on what makes a hit record. It’s, it’s, it’s one of the mysteries, and that’s what I like about it.
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: Nobody can, uh, really pinpoint what it is that, uh, is gonna strike the chord, you know, unless you get momentum. You, like, once you got momentum going, like the Tijuana Brass did, then um, the records sound pretty good immediately.
Rich: Yeah.
Herb Alpert: But if you get, you gotta get used to a sound, you know. We all got used to Frank Sinatra. You know, whatever he recorded sounded good and we loved that voice.
Rich: True.
Herb Alpert: But, uh, you know, like in the early days, I remember listening to, um. Willie Nelson, and this was way before A&M and I was thinking like, wow, why is this guy successful? I mean–
Rich: Yeah [chuckle], it’s definitely a, his voice is an acquired taste, I have to say.
Herb Alpert: Yeah. It’s an acquired taste. And see like once you hear it over and over, all of a sudden you say, Hmm–
Rich: It clicks.
Herb Alpert: –Yeah, that’s pretty good. I like that.
Rich: Yeah.
Herb Alpert: And I think a lot of artists have fallen into that category, Johnny Cash probably.
And um, you know, once you hear somebody over and over, you kind of get a feeling of their personality and their, the way they present themselves and–
Rich: Mm-hmm.
Herb Alpert: –Sounds different. So we’re all looking for that momentum.
Rich: Well, I think that pretty much covers it. I wanted to say that, uh, you’ll be playing in Oakland on December 5th, 6th, and 7th at Yoshi’s with your wife.
And it’s a small combo, right? I think there’s only a couple–
Herb Alpert: Oh, yeah. We, we’ve been playing with the same group for the last nine years. It’s very spontaneous. There’ll be a lot of jazz. There’ll be a little bit of Tijuana Brass, uh, medleys. And then my wife will do a Brasil ’66 thing. But surrounding that will be, uh, you know, good music.
Rich: Yeah, that sounds good. And once again, I enjoy the new album and uh, it was really great having a chance to talk to you.
Herb Alpert: Great, Rich, thanks for talking to you. And nice, uh, thanks for those good questions.
Rich: Thank you. Bye.
Herb Alpert: Good luck. Bye-bye.
